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Episode 188: Pulling Back The Curtain On Our Anti-Racism Journey

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For the last couple of weeks I’ve been posting on social media primarily about anti-racism and the collective opportunity we have right now to step into racial healing and liberation.

I rarely check my own Instagram stats, but I decided to take a look and found that for the first time in months, I’m losing more followers than I’m gaining each week.

These two things coinciding with one another is not just a coincidence.

I don’t know why each person is specifically unfollowing (and on a personal level, though it makes me sad for them and the world, I’m good with weeding out the folks who don’t want to be part of the conversation. They’re obviously not my people…at least not right now).

However, what I do know is that talking about race is uncomfortable. That’s why people don’t want to do it. That’s why my family didn’t talk about it growing up. That’s why my school didn’t talk about it much.

Yet, just like with anything uncomfortable, if we avoid it, it festers. Ignoring discomfort does nothing to relieve the discomfort. It simply ensures it will come out in some other, likely much worse way later.

Mike and I have been on a journey of doing anti-racism work internally, within our company, and within our communities for several years, and as more and more people wake up to how necessary this conversation and work is, we thought we’d talk about it on the podcast.

Disclaimer: We are in no way anti-racism teachers or experts. We are simply two people talking about what we’re doing, what we’re thinking about, who we’re learning from, what it’s been like, and how we’re navigating this work.

Listen in to this week’s fresh-off-the-digital-recording-device episode to find out:

  • What the natural world and our bodies have to teach us about diversity and healing (yep, biomimicry applies to everything!)
  • The life-changing encounter I had that shifted my relationship with my privilege, especially as it relates to shame and guilt
  • How doing the work feels now as opposed to several years ago when we were just getting started
  • How we’re ensuring that our anti-racism work is sustainable, so we can show up for the long haul (i.e., forever)
  • Who we’re loving learning from
  • How to access the hope and healing available for all of us right now
Pulling Back The Curtain On Our Anti-Racism Journey

In This Episode

  • How more people are “waking up” to race issues right now [6:39]
  • The layers of oppression we must work to be aware of [8:32]
  • A major realization Kate made about her upbringing and hometown [10:20]
  • The inner work Mike has done recently around race [14:50]
  • How we often stay in denial and the ways in which we deflect [20:20]
  • The role that guilt has played in our own healing process [22:48]
  • What is meant by “nature loves diversity” [28:58]
  • Lessons from Oprah [54:20]
  • What is holding a lot of us back right now [57:35]
  • What action steps we can take to move in the right direction on this issue [59:10]

Selected Links from the Episode

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People Mentioned

Erica Hines Desiree Adaway Milagros Phillips Rha Goddess Dr. Zach Bush Henry David Thoreau Rachel Cargle Nurse Courtney Tyler Perry Hillary Clinton Oprah Winfrey

Podcast Details

Apple Podcasts


  • Hi there,

    I really enjoy your show, the books and all of this.
    I learn so much! Thank you.

    I wanted to follow up on one of the books/ people you mentioned named Adrian Marie Brown Emergency Strategy, however I cannot find any link.

    Can you please advise?

    Thank you

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